Battle Report: Oicx

[Note: Besides the initial Caldari fleet, I don’t really have any numbers for how large/small each group was in each individual engagement.  I know Cal Mil started with ~60 pilots, and that the first clash was against a numerically inferior Gallente fleet.  Beyond that, because people were constantly reshipping on both sides of the several-hour-long engagement, I don’t have anything other than impressions based off of in-game scans.  Please feel free to provide an accurate accounting of your fleet sizes in the comments, if you’re so inclined.]

Cal Mil made a push for Oicx last night.  I logged in to calls from Templis/The Bloc asking for all parties from all allied groups to join in fleet with a T1 frigate.  I joined at roughly 01:00, as the frigate plexing was finishing.  The frigate plexing concluded at 01:28 and Cal Mil pilots were ordered back to Innia to reship into gank cruisers.

01:47
Approximate start time for iHub bash.  With about sixty pilots in fleet, the overwhelming majority in gank cruisers, the stated expectation was for a quick burn through shields and armor, before the Gallente could mount a proper response.  Indeed, the fleet burned through about 5% of the shields every 20-30 seconds for the first several minutes of the bash.

[ 2014.03.04 01:49:02 ] It’s at 80% shields.
[ 2014.03.04 01:49:25 ] 75%
[ 2014.03.04 01:49:52 ] 70%
[ 2014.03.04 01:50:38 ] 60%
[ 2014.03.04 01:51:30 ] 55%
[ 2014.03.04 01:52:54 ] 40% now

01:53
Gallente landed on field at the iHub.  Various numbers were thrown around, and conflicting Dingo scans linked in fleet.  Best guess is a fleet of inferior numbers, but one that had an overwhelming Logistics advantage.  Cal Mil warped off, having dropped the iHub to roughly 33% shields.

02:03
Cal Mil warp back in at the iHub to engage the Gallente.  Most of the Gallente are not on-field.  Caldari volley down a lone Kestrel and an unfortunate Hurricane that seemingly warped to the iHub by himself.

02:08
The main Gal Mil force lands on the iHub en masse again and the Caldari stay to engage.  Important to note, the numbers had not changed in any appreciable fashion, on either side, from Gal Mil’s initial warp in.

02:21
First engagement at the iHub ended.  Cal Mil pilots were ordered to warp themselves off the field, either to the POS in system, or back to Innia for a relatively quick reship.  Cal Mil pilots having lost ships returned to Innia for another go.  I put together a couple of charts to illustrate how the engagement went.  The first shows total numerical losses by each side:

ihub02090221totallossesbyfaction

Next we illustrate the numerical losses for each minute of this initial engagement:

ihub02090221lossesperminute

 

Finally, let’s break those losses out by ship type:

ihub02090221shipclassesbyfaction

Caldari ISK lost = 1.33B
Gallente ISK lost = 1.15B
Total ISK lost in first iHub fight = 2.48B

03:11
Second main engagement at the iHub involved SniggWaffe.  They had a large sniping Cormorant fleet in-system, likely attracted by the ginormous red dot that we’d placed on the EVE map.  Meanwhile, TEST was doing their very best to drive a determined group of Gal Mil deplexers out of the Novice in-system.  Lots of frigs were lost.  Lots.  The engagement in the Novice is what swung the fight toward the Gallente’s favor, but more on that later.

Suffice to say, things did not go well for Cal Mil while at the iHub.  While DPS was appropriately applied on the structure, Snigg gleefully volleyed our relatively thin gank cruisers off the field with abandon.

ihub03110321shipclassesbyfaction

Caldari ISK lost = 478M
Gallente ISK lost = 31M
Total ISK lost in second iHub fight = 503M

03:20
The Gal Mil frig fleet inside the Novice caps the plex, removing the vulnerable status from the system.  At that time, the iHub was at 11% armor.  Cue rage on comms.  The objective of the fleet, stated categorically numerous times, was to capture Oicx.  Nothing else was given consideration.  Given the amount of DPS that we had on the field, despite Snigg harassment, Cal Mil only needed another two minutes at the most to flip the objective.  Two minutes, hmm?  Let’s take a look back at the timestamps above.

The Gallente first warped to the iHub at 01:53.  Cal Mil immediately warped off to the friendly POS in system.  We warped to the Medium plex at 01:57, after the Gallente had left the iHub.  We warp back to the iHub at 02:03 and re-apply DPS.  The Gallente re-arrive at 02:08. It should be noted that this is the same fleet as before.  The numbers have not changed on either side.  The tactical situation hasn’t changed either.  Both times enemy Logi landed within 8km of my ship, so it is not as if we warped off and warped back in for a better engagement range, or for a warp-in on their Logis…their Logi were right on top of us in both instances.  We fought and we lost, but most critically, we wasted a fair amount of time in the losing.  As an Armchair FC speaking from a position of 20/20 hindsight, that’s a full ten wasted minutes.  Ten wasted minutes when we lost the objective by two at most.  There were several other instances of “sit at the PoS…because…”, but this one stood out the most.

Secondarily, no real attempt was made to push the Gallente frigates out of the Novice, despite the ominous countdowns coming from our cloaked scout inside.  TEST made their own valiant effort, it is true.  But they weren’t part of the fleet.  They were loosely coordinated by Pandi (who did an excellent job on the communicating) with us, but one of the first rules of FCing is to not rely on fleets outside of your control to perform critical tasks.  TEST was simply outnumbered by the Gallente inside.  When attempts were made to coordinate with Brave Newbies or other third parties, the writing was on the wall.  Do the important, critical tasks with your fleet.  Do not rely on third parties to get those jobs done.

Don’t get me wrong, the fights were fun.  I went through four ships throughout the evening, and enjoyed losing each and every one.  The “fun quotient” was certainly there.  And if we measure winning and losing in FW by how much fun we have, and how many good fights we get, then let’s consider last night a rousing success.  People fleeted up.  People fought.  People killed and people died.  Wrecks were looted.  Third parties injected themselves into the action regularly, and not simply on the side of the Gallente (despite accusations of such on comms).

03:43
Final large fight of the night. We already had the right ships in the system, and Gal Mil had come back with cruisers of their own.  Perhaps the Gallente had gotten overconfident based off of their previous victory(ies).  Maybe the Caldari were just “fighting mad”, having lost the stated fleet objective.  Whatever the case, Cal Mil brought the kills, deaths, and ISK numbers back toward respectability in the final large-scale engagement.

Caldari ISK lost = 333M
Gallente ISK lost = 732M
Total ISK lost in third iHub fight =  1.10B isk

A couple of charts to illustrate all three engagements, summed together:

ihuballthreelosstotals

ihuballthreeisktotals

To the FC’s credit, after a few moments of venting and winning the final iHub fight, he drew everyone back together again for another attempt.  The order came for everyone to hop out of their gank cruisers in the friendly POS, pod back to Innia, get in T1 frigates again, and re-achieve system vulnerability.

04:13
Cal Mil T1 frigs arrive back in Oicx and head to the Small Plex already containing the Gallente. Inside, Gal Mil fielded sniping Kestrels.  My own Kestrel was volleyed off the field almost immediately, which is where my direct involvement ended.  Docked in Innia, I listened to the final few minutes of the op.

04:28
A general level of frustration could be felt throughout the fleet.  An attempt to flip the system had been made, and it had failed.  Worse, people discovered a few minutes later that someone had stolen a sizable portion of the cruisers that had been left in the POS bubble.  The POS owner stored the remainder in the Ship Maintenance Array to prevent further theft.  With people logging, the FC called the op, intent to make another push another day.

Gal Mil made their own push for systems during the day, successfully capturing Odamia, Alsavoinon, and Tama.

About Geary

Geary has done a little bit of everything in EVE over the years. From fleet grunt to fleet commander, alliance member to alliance leader, he has been there and done that. Just don't ask him about that Machariel loss once upon a time...

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20 comments

  1. Yeah I was there for the entirety of the Sunday op trying to do this very thing. Sounds about the same with gal mill and snigg crashing our party. We didn’t even get to the ihub tho. FC called it and we went home. I wasn’t online for these events yesterday but on Sunday my cruiser was also stolen. Kind of annoying.

  2. I tried to fix the battle report here: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=24809

    It looks to be about 184 Gallente vs 228 Caldari + 89 BNI; with about 59 neutrals (mostly Snigg).

    Is there any word if BNI or other HERO coalition partners are going to officially join Caldari now with the whole “HERO” thing?

    • No idea, Andre. Also, BNI was shooting Cal Mil early and often as well, I wouldn’t put them on the same side in the fixed BR. 😉

      • OK, I just figured they were 100% on Caldari side since they seemed to be very well coordinated with TEST pushing Gallente out of several plexes (but never staying around to keep us out). New battle report: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=24811

        • BNI initially was in it for a FFA, apparently their were a few different BNI fleets out under varying FC’s. The first BNI fleet to come into system was hostile and came in and forced us of the IHUB.

          Although I agree with Gearys assessment of the decision to warp off when the Gallente first landed on top of us, the place to offer redress should be to the FC directly. Battle Reports are for reporting what happened with the most neutral tone possible. Calling an FC out in a public post creates needless and unnecessary drama.

          • I appreciate your concern, Simy. My battle reports, dating back to 2003, have always covered the good and the bad of an engagement. What went right, and what went wrong. The delays were one point that definitely “went wrong.” There were other things that could have been nitpicked, but that would have devolved into calling out the FC in areas of deficiency. I ran the final copy by a half dozen non-corp’d parties (several in the corp of the FC) to ensure a “neutral tone” to the critique.

          • I don’t think it was necessarily calling out the FC. It was simply explaining what happened. The call was made, and this is the result. Without going into details of the fleet and what happened and why, it ends up just being a kill mail report. The FC decided to wait, which is fine. The system was chaotic and going back in could have resulted in the fleets death. However, in 20/20 hindsight as Geary mentioned, going back would have meant the difference between flipping it and in this case, not. It’s not that Geary is calling out the FC for making a bad call, he’s simply calling things like they happened so people have a better understanding of how things went over time.

      • I was in the FAF fleet that fought with you guys, so I can provide a BNI perspective. We saw the giant red dot at Oicx too and came to check it out. We popped a few calmil cruisers before being told to back off. Apparently one of our higher ups is friends with someone in Calmil. We wandered around for a while before coming back and having a rousing good fight with Snigg. (For what it’s worth, I’m rooting for Galmil. FREEDOM!)

    • very interesting question! with test clearly intent on staying in CalMil for some time you would have to assume any joint OP with bni would be caldari aligned as well. frankly that would be only fair as it seems GalMil has more friends in high places already.

      great article btw, was only on field for an hour or so but had alot of fun.

  3. Fun night all around. Didn’t realize the IHUB was so low into armor. Makes it all that much more satisfying. 🙂 It’s hard to tell who did what, but I think the guys at BORG did a lot to turn the tide of the first IHUB fight. Lots of their ABCs on the final killmails (they weren’t in fleet).

    Snigg and BNI were out to kill everybody. Eve Uni showed up at one point as well. The numbers BNI and Eve Uni bring are much higher than we’re used to dealing with. Utter mess. Very interesting trying to navigate a system with 3-4 different parties all trying to kill each other.

    Our fleet was on the Eve-Radio feed throughout the night thanks to Funky Bacon. Lots of people were very entertained. Our FC is now famous for a couple new quotes: “Shut the f*** up and die!” and “Re-ship the f*** up”. (something like that).

  4. Nice writeup. This is the type of stuff I hoped to see from this site when it was first introduced(like the whitetalon.com BR’s). Great stuff keep it coming.

  5. I was the TEST FC there. I asked Tarus to assist us because I didn’t think it would be a good idea for us to shoot eachother. This may need to be discussed at a higher level but with TEST maintaining a presence in FW space, especially with upcoming campaigns, we may need to find some kind of solution.

    But yeah, We were there and had a mid sized frigate fleet there. That is why your guys told you to back off Calmil.

  6. What a huge waste of resources for a pointless system.
    I bet they all wonder why WZ control has slipped so quickly….

    Just putting this here for future reference:
    ‘I told you so’

    • Gallente also ended up killing 3 caldari archons and a phoenix a day or two after, at the same ihub. Was it worth losing all that for taking Oicx? Probably not.

      • People seem to have a hard-on for cap ships as something really valuable – they are not. ‘All that’ in the case of a couple of insured caps is really a trivial amount of isk. When you put the value of that isk alongside the value of the time of a few hundred pilots flying for several hours each it puts things into perspective a bit. The opportunity cost of 100 pilots in combat is minimally about 6 billion isk an hour (i.e. what they could easily earn running FW missions at tier 1) and a general unwillingness to support that commitment by regularly throwing away cap ships is strategically a bit skewed.

        The only real issue with losing cap ships is the morale boost it gives to the enemy. And since this boost is based on a game-wide unbalanced view of the value of caps it is not really something that can easily be changed.

  7. Oicx is an important system depending on what side of the WZ you fly and was worth taking, was it worth losing 3 caps over and did they need to be dropped at a prime time for most of EVE? I personally think not, no one person can be blamed for it and tbh fair play to the FC’s and cap pilots who went “balls deep” and flipped the system after I lost patience with FC’ing general calmil fleets trying to take oicx, well done to the FC’s who did and are still pushing fleets in and out of the system’s in and around the area to keep them Calmil.

    On the loss of WZ control…..are we too focused on a few systems? Could we figure out a way to take more systems and still hold what we have? Could Calmil do with a few corp’s only in FW for “fights” to f**k off or step up and assist those trying, who as you can see from the BR and Mittani.com are getting ALOT of fights? Yes, is the answer to all. Do we have the leaders and FC’s to coordinate better? Yes. What would it take to get them all to sit down and work something out? No idea, I tried and failed with spectcular rage on my part (Always a good laugh even when retarded) It will take someone with a mountin of patience, a small ego and an easy manner to fully capitalize on the current level of cooperation within Calmil.

    PS: Ibanez I love you dude, try sending a mail to the people you know trying to organise things and help form a plan, dont ask us to attack Nenna we cant “yet” but let us know your thoughts on the matter in terms of how to keep WZ control and organising its defence.

    Anyway, just my two cent’s

    • Vic – I know you love me. You are only human after all.

      But my job in Militia is to say what should be done and ‘I told you so’ after no one listened.

      It is not my place to organize other alliances and I have no interest in doing so.

      OICX has never been and will never be important.
      What has been achieved by taking OICX (and quickly losing it)?

      If the OICX campaign is a considered a good result by the rest of CalMil leadership then I feel for their members having so little to show for their efforts and time. (Sorry but imo – the flow on effect of halving your income is not a great result),

      The waste of man power/hours there and concentration of CalMil there has allowed the Gallente to hit and maintain Tier2 while Caldari WZ control has dropped. Now the Gallente are in a much better position thanks to the Caldari making poor decisions.

      Now home systems will come under attack as I told you all would happen if the OICX pushes continued.

      However – Had you all pushed somewhere like Nenn (an actual worthy goal) – you could have taken and held OICX with 2 afk alts as the Gals would not have even paid any attention to it.
      They know it is useless too but they like offensive LP and fights next to their home.

      If it was done purely for fights – I 100% would get it. But as that was not the motivation I am baffled as to why people see OICX as any sort of goal.

      My incredibly good looking corp members and ATONE were consistently pushing both Nenn and Hallanen into 30-45% at the same time with only a few pilots for weeks on end with almost no support from the rest of Militia. And you all went to OICX to achieve……

      ummmm
      I told you so? 🙂

      Your heart is in the right place Vic. You are one of the most enthusiastic people I have ever met in EVE. You do a lot for CalMil and you do all the things many of us are not interested in.

      o/
      Laney

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